Ed Young is PO'd
I'd love to know what predicated Ed Young's recording of this video speaking to his staff about "church pirates". I watched it a few times and the more I did, the more nervous I became. Seriously, Ed seems really pissed off in this video but he's trying not to act pissed off. Either someone on his staff just left and started a new church and took a few people with them OR (and this would freak me out even more) he got wind of someone on his staff planning on starting a new church, so he's calling them out without naming names.
About the third time through, the whole video reminded me of a Soprano's episode where Tony is making veiled threats while smiling and joking with you, while you laugh a nervous kind of laugh. It kind of freaked me out.
What do you think??
posted by Steve at
12/01/2008
21 Comments:
He is very defensive - for one who set up his own church in the way he now criticises! The moment of greatest fuzziness is where he tries to agree with church plantings while at the same time saying "but do not do it here". I agree that this sounds like a pre-emptive strike against a member of staff who is about to leave.
WOW...angry much?
My favorite part was reading through his blog posts about this aaaarg topic, but mostly the comments. Here's my favorite one:
"Why does the author only approve uncritical comments?"
It's nausieting reading through the throng of adoring fans...oh, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
I wonder what he would do if God took his precious little church away from him? Would that make God...Blackbeard? What a jackass.
Here's the reality. Mega churches are dying a slow and noisy death. Home fellowships and small gatherings are becoming, what I would consider, the stronger (spiritual, not quantative) element of the greater church.
I love those colored barrells he has on stage though. They do a great job of hiding the B3 organ, all the while exuding hippness and relevance.
ugh
Bottom line... it's all about the money.
It'd never happen in the corporate world?! What planet is he on?
Companies big & small train people up, invest in them, only to have them leave and establish their own competing start-up company, taking their clients & contacts while they're at it. Or they take all the skills and training they've received and join the other hotshot mega-corporation that's offering more money/prospects/perks/use of their talents.
It hurts when people you trust double-cross you or let you down, but to say it wouldn't happen in the corporate world ...
shieldsy, I think that's the point. Though it does happen in the 'real' world, companies can protect themselves and do have legal recourse...a church doesn't. What is he gonna say: "Hey, you can't peddle God, we're already doing that...see, we've trademarked it--I mean him!"?
I think this video is us witnessing a sad preacher/business owner who is starting to drown in the Bullshit he's been dishing out. He doesn't know it yet, but he's flailing around with no foothold.
It's sad...the next steps are fairly predictable. He will either come to his sense (unlikely) and try to change his ways (this may include his church, most of which he will loose in the process, or he'll just leave), or (and this one is far more common) he will embrace his vice (ie. drugs, money, sex--affair/scandal).
Let's face it, Mike Rowe (of the "Dirty Jobs" TV show) should do a segment on church leaders...it's gotta be the messiest job out there today. No thank you!
I love how these "pirates" worked their evil schemes for 20 years, "waiting to make their move."
Like many pastors, this dude is a victim of his own delusion.
I just watched the video and I was uncomfortable. I, too, wonder if something happened to trigger this other than the couple of "cases" he refers to in his talk.
His tone and way of going about this seem to indicate that he would be difficult to talk to if God were actually speaking about church planting.
But, here's what I get from this more than anything. He's a pastor that feels threatened by staff who have ideas and hopes that don't line up with his style of leadership and vision. He seems like the kind of guy who believes in total loyalty to the degree that staffers must think like him too, just because he's the "lead" pastor.
Either that, or he's stating the exact truth. I've known people like he's describing. They make plans without consulting their pastor, sneaking conversations here and there about how church could be better with their ideas. They talk badly about their pastor and eventually gain enough followers to make a move. If it were legitimate, they wouldn't be so sneaky.
Who knows? Maybe he's dealing with some real jerks that are full of themselves and think they can do better.
FYI - everyone I edited down my original post b/c I just feel I was not getting at the heart of what bothers me most about this video. There is so much here. I've seen it now about a dozen times and I see something new each time.
My original post was not just taking the video on face value and dealing with it. I'll add some thoughts later...and maybe repost some of my original thoughts as well.
I think EY is all for church planting as long as it is with his blessing.
I think God is larger than any church or leader and sometimes I think that entails people, or a group of people, breaking off from a church to start one that speaks to them. No church can be all things to all people.
Another thought. If the "church plant" is truly God ordained, it will prosper. Not necessarily in numbers, but in QUALITY. If it was not meant to be, it will fade away.
EY sounds not only pissed off but a tad insecure. Also protective of what I perceive as his own interestets, ie: keeping his big money making church sound and profitable.
Steve, just to understand you more...
Are you freaked out because EY is addressing the subject indirectly? Or are you freaked out because he's addressing the subject, period?
JB, obviously steve will answer for himself, but allow me to chime in my response: All of the above.
The subject itself should be a non-issue if he is practicing good leadership skills, and has a healthy functioning elder-board doing their job! But what bothers me even more than that are the overt and not-so-overt references to corporations in relation to his church. His obvious clasping at that which belongs to NO MAN is the very sickness that has infected todays churches.
If the church is the body (and I'm particualarly fired up about this, because I'm listening to "Jesus wants to save Christians" right now), who the frak cares if it all splits in to tiny little 3-man/woman churches/groups around the world. this idea that bigger is better has become the crux of preachers around America and beyond, and this fly-fishing idiot doesn't get it...or maybe he does, and his little temper tantrum infront of his staff is his way of working through that.
Either way, churches like that do more damage than good (both inside and out)...in my humble opinion.
BTW, have you guys seen the Fred Phelps doc on TV "Fall from Grace"? Good stuff.
Yeah, he's coming from insecurity. Where's the ownership of the following facts:
1) every church "plant" ends up drawing people away from some other church, even if it isn't from the "home" church, and
2) if people in your congregation get up and leave to go somewhere else, you just have to accept it and own up to your own personal responsibility. To blame it on a "pirate" is a lame, leadershipless copout.
Jimmy Bob - This reminds me of the Sr. Pastors I worked for and with over the years... TYPE A, micro manager, passive-aggressive control freaks who appear to be very, very insecure. So when I see this so blatantly in someone I kind of go into post traumatic stress disorder. So that's why it "freaks me out".
The apparent passive-aggressive nature of this video is disturbing to me and if I was on his staff I would be looking for an out right now.
In general too, this is highly hypocritical. He talks about planting churches and asks, "why are church planters only called to the elite...i.e. Palm Beach." So where is Ed's church located - Dallas. And when he had the chance to start a satellite church, where did he do it - Miami. It's just hypocritical.
He speaks of putting on the "Pastor's garb". He is not a Pastor in any way shape or form. He is a communicator, a speaker, a personality. To call himself a pastor is a joke.
JB - YOU are a Pastor. Would you agree that mega-church leaders know very little about what it means to be a Pastor?? Don't you get offended by his demeanor in this video?
IF all the assumptions surrounding this talk are true, that EY is simply threatened by church planters and trying to protect his own, then I am very bothered by his demeanor. I feel the same as you.
However, if he is actually addressing a real problem that his audience is clued into, then I am less bothered by his demeanor, but I think he could have done better. He shows insecurity here, like he already knows some people will dissagree with him. He raises his eyebrows and makes weird faces, etc. I would prefer a more direct approach to the "problem of pirates."
I agree with your analysis on the hypocrisy, but I would add that his argument is also weak. He says those things to try to delegitimize the calling of the church planter. But, God can call anyone, anywhere. Weak.
As far as your pastor questions go, I can't really comment specifically about EY because I don't know him. But, I will say this...
In general, I think mega-church leaders are mostly prophetic or apostolic in nature and not pastoral. In other words, they are communicators, organizers, and trainers. They cannot, because of the sheer numbers of people coming to their churches, function as a pastor. That role would probably be filled by small group leaders, etc.
EY probably sees himself as a pastor to the leaders he was speaking to. A "pastors pastor" as I have heard some call it.
And even more likely, when he spoke of putting on the pastor's garb, he meant that he was about to protect the people (the sheep) from the wolves (the pirates).
this video pisses me off . . . and i only listened to it instead of watching it.
from the passive aggressiveness to equating church with business, this guy's got issues.
if i had somehow been in the crowd, this would have been my last time there.
This comment has been removed by the author.
The last couple of blog entries made me miss the relatively enjoyable musings of Rick Pino and the spinning socks.
It sounds like he's pissed because he's lost market share.
A friend of mine who was working for a delivery company wanted to start his own delivery business, so he secretly outbid his boss for the company's clients. And won. Fair. Legal. It's the way business works.
I don't know what Ed's talking about when he references the "corporate world."
Live by the market, die by the market.
kgp
I can not speak to the church Ed pastors, but many churches their size have become large by sucking members out of smaller ones.
Fascinating. Thanks.
These churches, most churches, are business models. They are corporate with inner circles. Someone in an inner circle sees something wrong and acts on it. Becomes a non-team player. Conform or be cast out. The cast out flounders and asks God what to do now. - Sometimes thats how it happens. Other times it is as he said. In the end, either way, its a battle for a mans good name. And that has nothing to do with jesus as far as I can tell.
This is very typical of seeker sensitive pastors... they can do no wrong because they have this 'vision' from God and they won't accept any correction.
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