"Suck It Jesus" Amen.
Even though Kathy Griffin won her first Emmy over the weekend, she’ll still have something to talk about in her act. That’s because when the Creative Arts Emmys are broadcast Saturday on E!, her acceptance speech will be censored.
Upon winning this past Saturday, Kathy said, “Can you believe this shit? I guess hell froze over. … a lot of people come up here and thank Jesus for this award. I want you to know that no one had less to do with this award than Jesus. So, all I can say is, ‘suck it, Jesus.’ This award is my god now.”
In its story, the Associated Press would not reprint the “suck it, Jesus” line, instead reporting that Kathy “went on to hold up her Emmy, make an off-color remark about Christ.” According to the AP, the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences said in a statement, “Kathy Griffin’s offensive remarks will not be part of the E! telecast on Saturday night.” ~Reality Blurred
This story has received a lot of attention this week, so here's my take.
First... Christians who are offended by this need to lighten up. Of course this ruffles your feathers, but Griffin is an atheist. She was trying to get a reaction and she did. You making a big deal, calling her blasphemous and asking her to retract it only feeds the fire.
Second... Griffin is right. If people think that Jesus had ANYTHING to do or remotely even CARES about the Emmy Awards and who wins or who doesn't... that's just a little wacky. It's like watching Joe Gibbs pray on the sideline Sunday as his team attempted the winning field goal (which they made dammit). That type of display is just embarrassing.
Jesus doesn't give a damn about sports outcomes or Hollywood award shows or whether or not your musical equipment works during worship on Sunday morning... seriously he doesn't. It's all the same. Use your heads people.
Third... What is blasphemous in my opinion is those that accept awards or win the Super Bowl and thank Jesus, and then go out and live lives contrary to what they just proclaimed. And even if you are devout, it's pious and self-absorbed to think that Jesus picked you to win the award or the game over others who may have been "praying" for the same thing.
I know, some of you are gonna say, "Why didn't she say "Suck it Muhammed" or "Suck it Buddha"?? You know why? Because no one ever says "Thank you Muhammed" or "Thank you Buddha" for the exact same reason. It's hip to love Jesus as long as speaking his name in public gets you what you want. Like popularity, an award or two, a warm fuzzy feeling or even something like the presidency of the United States.
posted by Steve at
9/12/2007
37 Comments:
I am not so bothered by what she said as the fact that she said it just to bother people. I think when anyone is antagonistic, or intentionally trying to get under someone's skin, they are just adding to the pain of the world. We all get under each other's skin enough just by being different. I think it is part of the world's evil that so many of us try to do it on purpose.
I bet Jesus was amused by it.
When I'm awarded a contract, that means the other guys bidding didn't get it. Are you saying it's inappropriate for me to thank God for providing?
I bet Jesus is ROTLHAO
I like Griffin, though I'm not quite a fan, and I'd say this is typical of her sense of humor. Incidentally, I think it's funny as hell.
Have you considered your own contribution, dorsey? How much effort you put into building the qualities that got you that contract?
The problem I have with thanking God for such accomplishments are that it reinforces the "cosmic vending machine" image. Faith may give focus and motivation, but it's your own blood, sweat and tears, your own anxiety, your own manifested skills that got you where you are. If you need to thank anyone, it's the people who helped support you...
hrm.
I'm going to be the first to come out and say that maybe people give God too much credit.
I know I did the legwork, schmoozed the client, etc. Sure, in flesh and blood terms, I got myself the contract. But here's the thing. That breath I just took, a moment ago...I believe that I took it because God allowed it. So, when I say thanks to God, I don't believe that he supernaturally caused that purchaser to pick my bid over the others. I'm thanking Him for giving me the ability to earn a living and for providing the context in which I can exist.
Until you can show me the man who breathed life into himself, I'm going to say I think maybe people give themselves too much credit.
BTW, I think Griffin's remark was hilarious.
Hey Dorse...
Is it inappropriate for you to thank God for providing? I don't know if inappropriate is the right word... hey it's a free country. In my opinion, with all respect, it's a bit myopic to do so, when all things being equal other salesmen do the same legwork, the same schmoozing and might not garner similar contracts or financial success as you.
And your last comment is confusing... In one sentence you say God allowed you to have each breath (supernatural intervention) yet in the next you say he didn't supernaturally intervene for your purchaser to pick your bid. Then you thank him for giving you the ability and providing context (intervention) to earn a living.
It just creates a conundrum of sorts and I am certain you can extrapolate where I am going with this... much like previous discussions we have had. And I am sure we will have again.
Don't know if Mat Redman's worship music has made the journey across the Atlantic, but there's a line in one which says, "Every blessing you pour out, I'll turn back to praise". Isn't there a sense that when something good happens to us there is almost an innate feeling of gratitude? We can either internalise that and risk becoming rather smug and big-headed, we can simply thing "aren't I lucky" or we can turn it into praise & thankfulness to God. I'm sure that God more often than not says, "No, all credit to you on that one".
I'm increasingly aware that a lot of the good things that happen to me (and, often as not, the bad things that DON'T happen to me) are as a result of the choices I make which in turn are A RESULT OF MY UPBRINGING. So I am regularly thankful to my parents for things that they have no DIRECT contribution to. Think it's the same thing with my heavenly Father.
Think Griffin's comments are inane rather than troublesome. And agree with Andrew's original post in that what is troublesome is the spirit of antagonism which they seem to have been spoken in.
Ahahahaha.
Oh, Kathy Griffin. I didn't know she was actually funny! Turns out she is.
will said:
I bet Jesus was amused by it.
Do you have any idea how obnoxious it is when people do this? Presume to know what Jesus thinks about things? I know you're trying to make Jesus seem hip and loving and cool but it's not working.
P.S. Hi Steve!
Quite honestly, I think she can say whatever she wants. There are bigger, more important things going on in the world to think about.
Steve, your Baptist roots are showing, as is my pentecostal background, I suppose. LOL. You're right. This is similar to a previous conversation we had a couple years ago. I think I said that God is in control, and you responded very strongly. I remember being baffled, but as the discussion progressed, I remember realizing that we had both been raised in churches that believed God was in control, but our respective religious traditions interpreted that in very different ways.
If my reading of your post and subsequent comment is correct, it seems that this is a similar issue. I tend to believe that God set the universe in motion, and intervenes when He sees fit. I don't know the logic of it, and don't really fully understand it, but it seems more reasonable than the determinist argument, which I refer to as sock-puppet theology, stating that every action was preordained before time began. That just seems futile and fatalistic (Reformed guys, don't bother arguing about this. Been there, done that. Fruitless).
Also, I don't see the contradiction in my earlier comment. Thanking for every breath doesn't imply divine intervention, just that He set my breath in motion. Likewise, my getting the contract is a natural consequence of operating within the universe He set in motion (context). I'm just thankful for that. I don't know who else to thank, except maybe Josh. ; )
With that said, I was once healed of a sickness, instantaneously and miraculously, when the elders of the church I attended came to my bed and prayed for me. I consider THAT intervention. Again, I don't know why He answered that prayer and not my prayers for my friend, Ed, who died of leukemia about a year ago. It's just what He saw fit to do. I don't even want to go down the road of believing I can figure that out. Too much other crap to think about.
I hope I explained that in a way that made sense, even if you don't agree.
"First... Christians who are offended by this need to lighten up. Of course this ruffles your feathers, but Griffin is an atheist. She was trying to get a reaction and she did. You making a big deal, calling her blasphemous and asking her to retract it only feeds the fire."
Yeah, I haven't posted on any websites about this, you're the first one. Don't you feel all special now? :-) LOL I don't care. I kinda knew she was an atheist, but wasn't sure, so it all makes sense to me. Atheists love to get us all riled up for some reason. What I wanna know is if this win is gonna get her off the "D"-list and if so, will that be the end of her reality show?
"Third... What is blasphemous in my opinion is those that accept awards or win the Super Bowl and thank Jesus, and then go out and live lives contrary to what they just proclaimed."
I agree with this, I remember when that coach who's team won the Superbowl did that very thing and I stood alone in this opinion. I thought it was promoting the idea of "we're Christians and that's why we won. Because as the scripture says "if God is with us, who can stand against us." I didn't care about the coach's Christianity, I wanted to know if the team was "saved" and if they lived a lifestyle in accordance with the scriptures. Never got an answer.
"I know, some of you are gonna say, "Why didn't she say "Suck it Muhammed""
She wouldn't live for another 24 hours if she did. The Muslims don't play around when it comes to dissing their god.
"or "Suck it Buddha"??"
I've seen pictures of Buddha, I'd say he's had enough stuff in his mouth, wouldn't you? Rather portly fellow. LOL
"You know why? Because no one ever says "Thank you Muhammed" or "Thank you Buddha" for the exact same reason. It's hip to love Jesus as long as speaking his name in public gets you what you want. Like popularity, an award or two, a warm fuzzy feeling or even something like the presidency of the United States."
Yep.
Jenny said: "Do you have any idea how obnoxious it is when people do this? Presume to know what Jesus thinks about things?"
How is that behavior any more obnoxious than the people who win awards or football games and claim that it was God's will that they win and the other team didn't? It's the exact same thing. Both parties are claiming to know God's will and in essence speak for God.
1) Christians should not expect non-Christian to live up to Christian standards.
2) This was a calculated and planned media grab. She would do anything to get five more seconds of fame. Why feed her shamefulness?
3) I am always a bit confused when people talk about God not caring about some things because there are bigger things to worry about. This type of thinking simply does not mess with the God presented in the Bible. The God of the Bible is fully capable of dealing with all things both great and small. The Bible presents a God that cares for every hair on our heads. No matter how trivial these awards and games may be, the God I know still cares about every silly detail Gods children live out (much how I care about every goofy and seemingly unimportant thing my son does).
4) For whatever reasons it is culturally acceptable to mock Christianity (almost exclusively). This should concern people of all faiths - BUT if we wish for people to respect our right to praise our God in public then we much also respect others who wish to insult our God in public.
"Gays are going to burn in Hell for all eternity" is somehow "truth" yet "A lot of people come up here and thank Jesus for this. He had nothing to do with this. Suck it, Jesus, this award is my god now" is hate speech?
You can't be bigoted against a fictional character. You can, however, be bigoted against a huge segment of the population... which the Catholic League et al definitely are.
I guess it's a matter of which fictional character you choose to worship.
"A lot of people come up here and thank Mickey Mouse for this. He had nothing to do with this. Suck it, Mickey, this award is my god now."
> 4) For whatever reasons it is culturally acceptable to mock Christianity (almost exclusively).
That's quite simple, actually... it's because Christianity is diametrically opposed to logic, reason, truth, reality, common sense, etc. It's control mechanism to get people to conform to a hierarchical, male-centric model of power.
Christianity doesn't have an exclusive reign on stupidity, though... most religion is essentially the same.
It's quite appropriate to mock stupidity. And Christianism provides the world with plenty of amazing examples of stupidity.
dan, she didn't mock a predominant Christian leader or some specific socially detrimental ideology. She mocked one particular religion's own God. These are two very different things.
Beyond this, I am very interested in seeing how this view of your plays out in real life... if it is now a (morally) acceptable reality to mock someone's God in a public forum then please, do demonstrate this here for us. Draw for us a funny cartoon of Mohammad or tell us all a wonderful joke about the Jews using one of their many "examples of stupidity".
I am sorry dan, you are just dead wrong and your view has lead to horrifying religious persecutions in the past. What she did was legal and allowable. She has a right to her own religious views and should not be publicly chastised but that does not make what she said moral or socially responsible.
We, all of us, need to find a way to hold fast to our own views, without taking to the microphones of this world with negative and demeaning attacks on other beliefs.
(By the way, violence against homosexual people and women is not a Christian problem, nor is it a religious problem in general. It is a world problem. As soon as we blame one group or label for all of our troubles we invite more pain and more troubles. Moreover it is foolish to blame the system for these problems and essentially serves only to let individuals, who are the real culprits, off the hook.)
This comment in the original post led to what I had to say...
First... Christians who are offended by this need to lighten up. Of course this ruffles your feathers, but Griffin is an atheist. She was trying to get a reaction and she did. You making a big deal, calling her blasphemous and asking her to retract it only feeds the fire.
There are much worse things going on in the world right now than this.
Personally, I think she'll reap what she's sown.
I agree with Dorsey that God set the whole creation in motion and interjects his will and action when He sees fit. The mystery of the faith (in my opnion) is that I don't really know if I am wearing this set of clothes today because I chose to or if He did. I think I usually make that choice myself...but I see examples in the Scriptures about God caring about even smaller details.
Besides, I'd always rather err on the side of gratefulness than to err on the side of self-pride.
When people like Griffin say things like that, I just shake my head and remind myself that we shouldn't expect anything more from non-believers.
Hrm...thanking God for setting the world in motion... Doesn't this get into fundamental issues? And let's be honest, usually you're thanking Him because something occurred, but more often than not the fact that this occurrence was in your favor meant it was not in someone else's. e.g., because dorse gets a contract, another company loses out. One could go so far to say that one's success diminishes God's ability to provide for another. Perhaps it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that the kind of success one would be thankful for is tied to an imperfect system.
SO! You thank God because you're fortunate, but did what happen happen because of something He set in motion, or because of the effects humans have had on the system?
...I'm still trying to decide if that makes sense or not.
Interesting post. I agree shelly there are a lot more important things going on.
Jesus is cool. Jesus is way cool.
King Missile Lyrics
Jesus Was Way Cool
Jesus Was Way Cool
King Missile _Mystical Shit_ Shimmy Disc
Jesus was way cool
Everybody liked Jesus
Everybody wanted to hang out with him
Anything he wanted to do, he did
He turned water into wine
And if he wanted to
He could have turned wheat into marijuana
Or sugar into cocaine
Or vitamin pills into amphetamines
He walked on the water
And swam on the land
He would tell these stories
And people would listen
He was really cool
If you were blind or lame
You just went to Jesus
And he would put his hands on you
And you would be healed
That's so cool
He could've played guitar better than Hendrix
He could've told the future
He could've baked the most delicious cake in the world
He could've scored more goals than Wayne Gretzky
He could've danced better than Barishnikov
Jesus could have been funnier than any comedian you can think of
Jesus was way cool
He told people to eat his body and drink his blood
That's so cool
Jesus was so cool
But then some people got jealous of how cool he was
So they killed him
But then he rose from the dead
He rose from the dead, danced around
Then went up to heaven
I mean, that's so cool
Jesus was way cool
No wonder there are so many Christians
Jesus Was Way Cool
Anyone think that they'll edit out any announcement about "Dick in a Box" winning an Emmy as well, or will they be selective about the whole thing?
As far as Griffin's statement goes, I highly doubt that she meant it as any truly serious insult to Jesus. It was a satirical line at best, a lowbrow attempt at getting a reaction at worst. Mainly, I'm going to go with Steve's point that she was making fun of people who do truly believe that Jesus made the judges pick certain people or whatever.
At the same time, if someone put a shout-out to Jesus or Allah or whomever in terms of being blessed with certain talents, then I'd have much less of a problem with that. Football players can be thankful for their athletic talent, musicians can be thankful for their musical talent, Griffin can be thankful for whatever talent she has, etc. So long as they don't take it to the extreme, a la "God gave me more talent than you," or however else we like thinking that God likes us more than someone else.
"SO! You thank God because you're fortunate, but did what happen happen because of something He set in motion, or because of the effects humans have had on the system?"
That's just the point. No God, no system, let alone humans to affect it. That's what I mean when I say He provides context for all of this to occur.
I agree with your suggestion that I refer to an imperfect system. I do. It is.
When people like Griffin say things like that, I just shake my head and remind myself that we shouldn't expect anything more from non-believers.
What a sweet thought. Apparently they shouldn't expect much from you either, at least by way of religious humility.
I think Jesus laughed at Griffin's comment. Because Jesus does not have a fragile ego that needs stroking. But Griffin is profoundly disrespectful of the religious icons of a large group of religious people. And I believe that she trades on the good will of Christian people. She would never have dared say this of Mohammed...or Allah.
I often find myself agreeing with you and enjoying a good read when all of the sudden, out of now where a comment highlighting the the wonderful world of sin-consciencness comes out.
You said:
*What is blasphemous in my opinion is those that accept awards or win the Super Bowl and thank Jesus, and then go out and live lives contrary to what they just proclaimed.*
I just don't see how acknowleging Jesus has anything to do with your lifestyle. Also, how does that even have anything that conotates blasphemy. You are saying this, as if being a christian is about how you act. Is this not your foundational problem with the church. This is a constant contradiction that I don't understand.
Maybe I am just knit-picking, but I really don't get that part.
Jesus doesn't give a damn about sports outcomes or Hollywood award shows or whether or not your musical equipment works during worship on Sunday morning... seriously he doesn't. It's all the same. Use your heads people.
Really?!?
"Use your heads"?!?
Is using your head what faith in Christ is about?
Jeff...
The "use your heads" comment was not referring to faith. The preceding sentence has absolutley NOTHING to do with one's faith. Read it again.
Now to your question. Is using your head what faith in Christ is about? Obviously not where you are concerned. But then again, explain how you have a concept of "faith" (or anything else for that matter) without any reason at all?
Zeke - "What a sweet thought. Apparently they shouldn't expect much from you either, at least by way of religious humility."
Perhaps you misunderstood my comment...I don't expect people who don't attempt to follow Christ to do anything Christ-like...I believe there is a spiritual battle raging and if you aren't pursuing Christ than I suspect you generally succomb to evil. We act surprised when non-christians do disappointing or evil things. That's what we do before we are renewed by Him! Why freak out!?
I shake my head because I'm sad for those who don't know Him. It's not out of pride or because I am not passionate about seeing people like her come to know Him. It's just sad to see our culture degrade and it's sad to see people not follow Him. Instead of actions like hers stirring us to condemnation, it should stir us to loving them even more and praying for renewal in our culture.
I hope that clarifies my intent/feelings on the subject. If you read my blog at all, you'd know that I despise prideful, hate-mongering evangelicals. Hense the name of my blog.
But then again, explain how you have a concept of "faith" (or anything else for that matter) without any reason at all?
Not to mention...aren't there at least a couple of passages in the Bible where it's implied that it's okay to use your brain as a Christian? I'm thinking of these two in particular (emphasis mine for both)...
"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool." (Isaiah 1:18, NASB)
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; (1 Thessalonians 5:21, NASB)
I don't expect people who don't attempt to follow Christ to do anything Christ-like...
So you do expect Christians to act Christ-like? I think it's a beautiful thing when it happens, but I wouldn't go around expecting that lest you set yourself up for constant disappointment.
I expect Christians to at least CARE about whether they are acting Christ-like. Though we fail miserably, my expectation that we care softens the disappointment when I or those around me fail.
Look, I understand where you're coming from vis a vis the doctrine that is behind your thinking, but it galls me when Christians speak with an "us and them" tone, especially when it implies that "they" are less than. It's not easy to get the stink of spiritual superiority off of us that church can lay on.
Fact is, the quality of interaction I've had with people outside the church, and the degree to which those I've known outside the church live lives of integrity and high moral standing is virtually indistinguishable from what I've known in the church.
"Save" the "lost" and "unregenerate" if you feel doctrinally compelled to, but frankly the language of evangelicalism, the us/them dichotomy, the assumption of spiritual certitude, is a bit much sometimes.
And when I say this, accept that I'm speaking to the man I used to be more than I am to you.
Doctrinally and spiritually speaking, I don't know where I really am anymore. But I am long gone from where you're coming from.
I understand. And aside from not knowing where you really are anymore, I don't think you and I are very far apart at all. I don't disagree with what you just wrote. I think it is mostly semantics.
I am known where I work as the ONE "Christian" people can talk to, can have a beer with after that days' session is over, etc. I get flack from other "Christian" lobbyists all the time about how "my way" of interacting with nonbelievers isn't going to work. I've even asked them if they think I'm going to hate these people into the Kingdom only to have them tell me I wasn't going to love them into it either.
So...maybe I used a phrase that rang your emotional bell, but I don't think you and I are much different...if at all...on this subject. Church People suck at relating to "them." I'm with ya. And the context of my blog will bear that out as well.
Jesus doesn't give a damn about sports outcomes or Hollywood award shows or whether or not your musical equipment works during worship on Sunday morning... seriously he doesn't. It's all the same. Use your heads people.
To a lot of christians, this is a faith issue... that whole, "God cares for the sparrows, how much more does He care for you" kinda thing.
Now to your question. Is using your head what faith in Christ is about? Obviously not where you are concerned. But then again, explain how you have a concept of "faith" (or anything else for that matter) without any reason at all?
I don't see this as an either/or issue. Of course the mind plays a part... just not the primary part.
I read this article, and "use my head", and realize that Kathy Griffin has every right to say what she said. But, every Christian who was offended, have every right to be offended.
Her comments offend me. But that's because I love Jesus.
One reason out of a plethora of reasons why I don't pay much attention to the Emmy Awards.
IBTL!
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