Stupid Spreads to Maui
This week I find myself in Hawaii on a quick vacation to the wonderful island of Maui. My oldest son and I have been enjoying ourselves just relaxing on the beach, cruising the one-lane roads and frolicking (yeah, I said frolicking) in the ocean. It's been a a blast to just do absolutely nothing... with one exception.
In a never ending search for Stupid Church People everywhere, we discovered the following sign not far from our getaway spot. It was depressing to know that Stupid Church People have found their way to this beautiful place, for I am certain that it is a mainlander, not a native that has brought this viral infection to paradise.
How much stupid can you find in this picture. (Click to enlarge)
To the trained SCP observer, this picture paints a million words. I have so much I could write on this photo, but I have been enjoying everyone's contributions so much, I don't want to steal anyone's thunder. So have it and let it fly... and remember, the pastor may have been hit on the head by a coconut, been exposed to too much sun or just seen one too many bikinis to be thinking straight.
In a never ending search for Stupid Church People everywhere, we discovered the following sign not far from our getaway spot. It was depressing to know that Stupid Church People have found their way to this beautiful place, for I am certain that it is a mainlander, not a native that has brought this viral infection to paradise.
How much stupid can you find in this picture. (Click to enlarge)
To the trained SCP observer, this picture paints a million words. I have so much I could write on this photo, but I have been enjoying everyone's contributions so much, I don't want to steal anyone's thunder. So have it and let it fly... and remember, the pastor may have been hit on the head by a coconut, been exposed to too much sun or just seen one too many bikinis to be thinking straight.
posted by Steve at
7/06/2006
56 Comments:
Maybe the pastor has been hit by no such ninja coconut nor a mystical sun beam nor even too many skin-whores... perhaps he's really not stupid at all because he could be really inviting us to a weed farm...
so as it turns out maybe he's the smartest smuck around... covering up smoking the ganja with classic stupid christian propoganda horseshit.
hugs and kisses,
DSW
[moan] stupid church people...can't live with 'em...pass the beer nuts.
This post reminds me that I need to take my camera with me the next few days and take pictures of all the stupid "sidewalk pulpits" we have in Des Moines. I'll post them on my blog soon.
i think i remember seeing that same sign when the nun and i were there on our honeymoon . . .in 2002
When Jeff and I were in Maui, we went to a Calvary Chapel service that met outside in one of those little parks on the side of the road just north of Lahaina. That church had no facilities other than a little office space it rented up the road. No sanctuary, and no plans for one. I don't know how the politics worked there, but man, having a service under a palm tree, watching sea turtles swim by in crystal blue water with the island of Molokai rising in the distance sure did make the whole glory-of-the-Lord thing a little easier to envision.
Oh, don't get ~me~ started !
The Couch's, er, Crouch's should be TOTALLY ashamed of spending $345 MILLION $$ to hush up a homosexual affair. And that woman needs to take that F#@*king makup off RIGHT DAMN NOW !!
Tammy Bakker has lung cancer. From all the makeup she wore, no doubt. Inhaling all that noxious powder and vapors from the mascara.
It's pretty clear that this church is trying to attract...uhh. Trying to attract...uhh, those who are dying to spend money?
I'm guessing the pastor probably thinks that people will be attracted to a church that is growing (evidenced through the building of physical structures). He wants to invite them to come and join the growth.
However, he does not realize (or care) how this looks to the unbeliever or how this scares the crap out of the believer who may be seeking a new church home.
This sign clearly does not appeal to the unbeliever. They would not come specifically because they know that for this church, money is a major focus right now.
The seeking believer would run from this because the last thing they would want is to pour their money into a building for people they don't even know yet.
So, I guess the only potential target of this campaign is the abnormal. Indeed, by putting the signs up, the church is seeking...a miracle.
OK, OK, I get da message, jenny. the Babs church I go to(an am soon ta leave....see my blog) Built a big new addition, called the payment plan "Forward in Faith", and the pastor of 12+ years, bailed and went to Florida, and now all the staff blame him for the messed-up finances !! HELLO ?!? Didn't see him twisting anybody's arm to vote this thing in !!!
Yea. I am so tired of church, and of organized crime, er , religion. Money hungry freaks, all of them. Fifteen thousand kinds of Bibles at the $B$I$B$L$E$ B$O$O$K$S$T$O$R$E$ but no one wants to give any away.
My apologies to Tammy fans everywhere. Her son has done well, I agree. Not many folks putting churches in bars ( maybe where they should be ??)
Steve, I have a hard time not getting unnerved reading your blog. I mean, I understand your whole "once a preacher, now I'm not and have a bird's eye view of the dirty side" spiel, which personally I find a bit overwrought and funny that it took you until your 40s to figure out that the scene in which you RAN for so long could be strangely similar to market retailers and infomercials.
News flash for Steve: You WERE that guy. You WERE that preacher that sought to count heads and see people bewailing at the alter because the guilt police sentenced them there for YOUR satisfaction. You WERE a stupidchurchperson. Now all of the sudden you prance around on an ostensibly consequence-free blog congratulating your own ability to break through a culture box. I've snooped around this site for about a month, and I'm not impressed. Not that you care, but people versus stupidchurchpeople isn't going to help shit. You may think you've ascended to some epiphany by pointing the finger at the ridiculous signs and the connotations thereof. I've been laughing at that crap since I was 14. Pin a rose on my nose, I know. But my point is, there is nothing groundbreaking and awe-inspiring about realizing that some people can be duped by other more adept immoral people. The laughingstock started a long time ago when Christians emulated real world economic marketing schemes (subconciously and conciously) in order to up memberships and contributions. This site's premise is admirable, but its philosophical technique to obtain truth by justifiably poking fun (which is not really justifiable when you fucking PUBLISH it) is, at best, laughable. At its worst? sad.
Nugget,
If you've been snooping around here for a month or so, how did you miss Steve's continual admission that he too is a stupid church person? We all are...we all fall into that same pattern of behavior, feeling guilt, looking for away out, and trying to do something to overcome it...it's our sin and that isn't going to change. It makes us all susceptible to manipulation and there are many people out there who are happy to take advantage of it. It's part of the church. However, recognizing it and keeping it to one's self is one thing but criticizing it and trying to bring it to the attention of those being victimized is another. So, I guess the question falls to you, Nugget, what have you done to bring this to the attention of others? How would you go about changing the state of the modern church? Have you, with your rose on your nose, brought together a community of believers like this site has?
I like both the premise and the method of this site. I think it's a great way to bring attention to the problems of the church. I appreciate Steve and Josh's work. If you don't like it, you can start your own blog where you only publish things that are not offensive or funny.
Well said, Scott. I'm tired of these bloggers who come in here saying, "I don't approve of how you run your blog." It's like watching TV. If you don't like what's on, CHANGE THE FUCKING CHANNEL. No one is forcing you to watch. No one is forcing you to read this site. It's a free country, and anyone who has the time, talent and inclination can start a blog and say whatever the hell they want. The test of whether it's a success is left up to the host to decide, but generally, folks who like a certain blog will return and join the conversation. If no one shows up, that's certainly one measure (although not the only measure) of how well the blog is doing. Sucky blogs tend to not have many returning visitors. God, if only the owners of sucky blogs were web-savvy enough to put a statcounter on their site!
A blog is about the only place where (if the host allows) people can publicly critique it without having to put much effort (or thought, apparently) into doing so, unlike a television show, movie, or any business entity (try getting your biting complaint about a newspaper or church published in the newspaper or church's bulletin!). Steve is more open than most people (me included) to criticism from complete strangers, but to critique the whole premise of the site is like frequenting a restaurant for a month and THEN complaining about the food. If you don't like it, you don't have to come back. No one forced you to eat the whole enchilada. A restaurant is successful because enough people frequent the establishment on a regular basis. If you don't like it, don't eat there. If enough people don't like it, the place will eventually shut down.
Those of us who "frequent" stupidchurchpeople.com on a regular basis DO make our voices heard when we disagree with Steve or Josh, or think they're out of line. It's like going to your favorite restaurant and noticing they mixed up your order or charged you for extra drinks; you let them know, because you want your favorite restaurant to still be your favorite. But you don't frequent the skanky joint down the street that serves bad coffee and has horrible service, because, why subject yourself to that? If you and others keep returning and business remains good, they won't feel a need to improve, no matter how many comment cards you stuff in their complaint box.
Nope, instead you blog about your experience and you tell all your friends so that the people you care about can make a more informed decision when it comes to their restaurant choices. If you are a health inspector, former chef, or restaurant manager, your opinion carries even more weight. You can actually educate your friends about what makes a restuarant good, so that when they frequent a restaurant you yourself have never been to, they can apply their knowledge and keep certain criteria in mind when they evaluate the restaurant.
Did I extend the analogy far enough? At any rate, if you don't like it, try boycotting it. That really worked out well for the Baptists with that whole Disney thing. ;)
But then again, maybe their criteria for boycotting was whacked.
Nugget,
From one 'snooping around for a month' guy to another....your dumb. If there is one thing these two guys are not, it is self-righteous. They continually, in their blogs and on their podcast, admit they are stupid just like any other church person. They are (arguably) less stupid after exploring the things that are dumb in the church. However, I congratulate you nugget...on spelling your expletives correctly.
I am continually interested in the commenting that "People come one here to tell you how to run your blog". It seems that as soon as someone has an opposing idea, this "community" as it were seems to dislike it.
Theres this whole idea that you don't enjoy the attention you are receiving for your go against the machine approach. Isn't that exactly what you are saying is the problem? People seeking the ego stroking approval of others. Lets not kid anyone here you all enjoy the attention your mustering up from the over 100 comment blogs.
It seems that as soon as someone has an opposing idea, this "community" as it were seems to dislike it.
(Insert sarcastic laughter here.)
All Scott and Ninjanun were doing was pointing out to Nugget that s/he was telling the SCP readership (and Steve and Josh) stuff that we (collective/universal) already know; and that if this person doesn't like what they have to say, they don't have to come back.
Neither do you, shefrog.
And if the readership doesn't like what a commenter has to say, they--like the original commenter--have the right to express themselves, too.
You seem to have this big need to point the finger and laugh (you may not say you're laughing; but, IMO, you're sure as hell implying that you are) every fucking time that someone rips Steve and Josh a new one.
Lets not kid anyone here you all enjoy the attention your mustering up from the over 100 comment blogs.
Let's not kid anyone here; you enjoy all the attention you get when someone like me rips you a new one. Get off your sanctimonious high horse, please.
Ok guys, we get it. Church people suck. What is your point? If I ask you what you are going to do about it I would guess you will respond, "Start a blog and gripe".
(new paragraph)
I mean why are you getting so upset? It is just in good fun. Ya know, like calling in the TBN call center and screwing with the prayer counselors. We don't mean any harm, it like turning your tv to "King of Queens" and getting a good laugh.
(new paragraph)
In response to your comment Ninjanun I would just like to say," bla bla bla bla bla". Did I extend that analogy far enough? At any rate if you don't bla bla bla boycot bla bla bla Bastists bla bla bla whacked.
(new paragraph)
In finally, i would like to say that I have found it helpful to bring the "community" together, a pot-luck dinner never hurts.
(insert sarcastic laughter here)
Davidsoftulsa & Shelly,
I for one have had enough of your "Blog Masterbation" for one night
this blog is one big nasty back-patting orgy centralized around a dated revelation of thought. Too bad they were the last to catch on and responded in the most idiotic way possible (e.g. publishing public shit that calls actual INNOCENT people derogatory names)
Good call Josh and Steve. Nice humble approach there guys.
If you want honest fucking debate, I'll give you honest debate, but don't sit around and fend for these guys who havn't had the balls to humor me a line or two after I've clearly earned it.
They are attention whores and I KNOW it. The fact that they even were top dawgs in the ministry proves it! They're the ones that were ornamenting their perty little public prayers with totally awesome acoustic guitars in the background finger-picking G,C,D and then maybe a shoutout to Em when they started praying about something sad!
hahaha!
You can say whatever you want about me, I didn't create a public forum called "Stupid Church people". I just can't get over the title. Until Steve or Josh actually explains their own contributions to the stupid, I'll pitch a tent, bring a lawn chair, and camp out here until someone trips over me and notices I'm here.
shefrog: You said it earlier! Rock on.
Until Steve or Josh actually explains their own contributions to the stupid, I'll pitch a tent, bring a lawn chair, and camp out here until someone trips over me and notices I'm here.
Just keep reading, it's there. Both of them have repeatedly confessed to their contributions to the problem. In fact, I think most of us who have been coming here over the last year or so admit the same thing. If you point is "ooooh, you're stoopid too!," then sure... I'm stupid, wer're all stupid. Do you have anything else to contribute? Because that's what I'd like to hear once you've got the whole 'stupid' thing out of your system.
Better be careful, all this stirring hatred is starting to look like church.
Davidsoftulsa, This IS the point! This IS doing something about it....its making people aware of some of the wrongs that church people commit in the name of religion. Should we just ignore it all and go on playing the game? This sort of stuff can't be said enough. As for some of the namecalling and all that, sometimes people get worked up and say things they may or may not regret later on....plus the fact that the internet provides a buffer of security. Is anyone else nearby guilty of flying off the handle because something bugs them.....ahem
Nugget, You don't make a lot of sense..... What is the issue here? So what if he published a real church...if people going there see it maybe it will make them think about the issues surrounding what their church is about. I believe it seriously remains to be seen that are making a good point....what is your point? That you disagree with how these guys do their thing? Also, i'm not sure you've 'earned' a response, whatever that means. Perhaps it takes a true attention whore to see who the other attention whores are around them (and they would be the first to admit that they like the attention....who wouldn't?). Anyway, if you looked back you would see how they have told how they were stupid too....just like anyone....
In simpler terms:
1. Two guys are pastors
2. both get disillusioned with the church and get tired of the crap and having to 'fake it' all the time
3. both eventually (and separately) leave ministry because they don't want to lie to themselves or others anymore
4. both find each other (magically) and find a common interest in all things stupid about church
5. they team up to podcast and blog to make a place where others who are/were disillusioned with the church can be themselves.
6. Many people agree and many disagree. Some get really pissed and quickly string multiple responses together that are difficult to understand....newcomers who are into it all waste their time trying to respond to those who are pissed....
ugh...
Oh, and this is definitely worth seeing....funny.
http://www.crossrevconnect.com/
I wonder if Jesus blogs?
Shelly: Just for your amusement -
(insert sarcastic laughter here)
"It's like watching TV. If you don't like what's on, CHANGE THE CHANNEL."
Tell that to all the 'regulars' on here who seem to have such a big problem with TBN, Hinn, Crouch, Warren etc or
Here's the paradox I just don't seem to get ... in Josh's blog the 'regulars' were almost queuing up to mess with TBN's prayer line (or applaud those who would), but soon as some people come along and 'disrupt' your little community it's 'that's not fair' ... and that's despite the fact that Blogs are specifically designed to allow that sort of thing.
If you're going to ridicule stuff that an awful lot of people are participants in, then you're going to have to face up to the reality that you're going to get some peoples backs up.
Back to the original post ... can't see much wrong with the church sign. It's a bit crass, a bit cheesy, it isn't going to change anyones lives but I suspect most people won't analyse it that deeply ... it'll be just another bit of advertising they completely ignore.
But then maybe I think like that coz I have no problem with mega churches or churches wanting to be mega, in fact I have more of a problem with micro chuches.
Wow, everyone stayed up late and I didn't get an invitation...That's sad, because this whore needs a little attention too.
Regardless, we can draw parallels between churches (mega or micro) and SCP if you'd like but there is one major distinction, Josh and Steve are not asking for money from anyone.
davidsoftulsa,
when you're not saying blah blah blah, you sound a lot like the israelites when they were being told off by the prophets.(Ok guys, we get it. Church people suck. What is your point? If I ask you what you are going to do about it I would guess you will respond, "Start a blog and gripe".)
am i calling these guys prohpets? by no means. but, what did the prophets do other than point out all of the crap that the israelites were doing?
nugget,
so if the "regulars" of your blog all agreed with you and defended you, would that be a circle-jerk as well? or is it just on sites that you don't agree with?
Davidsoftulsa-- Thanks for showing your true colors: when you can't make a good point, just resort to infantile tactics and mockery. Way to be an example of what stupid church people is all about.
Nugget-- I"m anonymous asshole that's playing devil's advocate and making a damned good point.
No, you have yet to make a damned good point, but thanks for letting us know that you're nothing more than a troll.
You and everyone else who defends the frauds (Benny Hinn and TBN) and stupidity of church people who give Christianity a bad name simply because you can't get past that someone is calling them out on their hurtful and counterproductive tactics don't seem to understand the nuanced difference between this website's purpose and the purpose of those frauds. As Scott said earlier, Steve and Josh aren't asking you for money. They aren't making money off this site. They aren't guilt-tripping anyone into coming to their church or putting more $$ in an offering plate, or building big-ass monuments to some pastor's ego, when it has little or nothing to do with the Kingdom of God. They are calling "bullshit" on those who do such things, to have a little fun and to make people aware of the stupidity around them and within them.
ninjanun - good point(s). I agree.
I think you could almost make their comments a litmus test. If they start to agree with you on anything, check yourself...
I've written what I've written and said what I've said for almost the past year and a half... and in that time I have stated very clearly in almost 125 posts what I am about. I've chronicled it all here for the world to read... for better or for worse.
Either people like it or they don't... or some want to know more about it and enter into a dialogue with me and others here at our little site.
Still others like to pop on the site and say a few words about how we disgust them, or they really don't get it, or they think we should shut up or whatever... and they move on because they either don't really care or they have more important things to do. That's cool too.
I don't need to explain myself in general... mainly because I already have regarding why SCP exists and what SCP means to me. It's all here in white and black if someone really wants to pitch a tent, bring a lawn chair, camp out and read it... if they don't then they don't.
Sorry, NinjaNun. You're loyalty in defence of your friends blog is laudable but you just don't seem to get it.
Doesn't the fact that there seems to be a (growing?) number of 'detractors' commentating on the blog make you realise that there are people who feel just as adamantly about Steve & Josh's views/conduct as you so plainly do about other ministries? Aren't we able to call "bullshit" on the stuff Steve & Josh spout?
It's always shocking when you realise that not everyone sees things the same way as you do. Especially when you are so clearly right, but that's life. Maybe - just maybe - some of the people you KNOW are"Frauds ... hurtful ... guilt-trippers ... counter-productive ... ego-trippers ... stupid", are actually men & women who are trying there best to serve God with all their heart & mind & strength. Maybe some of the people you label 'Stupid' are actually intelligent enough to realise the church is a flawed institution but decide to stick with it "warts & all".
Ex-smokers are frequently the most virilent 'anti-smokers'. Seems like ex-churchers are in danger of being the same.
[Incidentally, the "S&J don't ask for money" thing is a big red-herring. Don't think you can compare the needs of maintaining a blog with the running of even a small ministry. If it starts costing them £1000's a week to keep the thing afloat, they'll be asking for donations alright!].
Aren't we able to call "bullshit" on the stuff Steve & Josh spout?
Sure thing... I do all the time! We are often full of it... and have said that often as well.
Doesn't the fact that there seems to be a (growing?) number of 'detractors' commentating on the blog...
I love that scene from the Howard Stern movie where they are talking about how long people that love Stern listen to the show each day... about 45 minutes. Reason: To hear what he is going to say next.
And how long do people that hate the Stern show listen... about 2.5 hours. Reason: To hear what he is going to say next.
To me it doesn't matter why people are coming to the blog or listening to the podcast. My goal was to share what was on my mind... and I didn't really ever think anyone would really give a shit. That we have people that visit and like us or visit and don't like us... to me that's all good. We aren't pretending to be more than we are... and quite honestly... we really aren't that much.
Steve once said to me,
"You are just one of those people who can't ever admit they are truly wrong (i.e. ego problem) and so you play it off like you are too good or too smart to deal with my comments... in essence you dismiss me in a condescending way."
I guess my question is the same for you Steve. Nugget has got some real questions. So why do deflect his questions with non-responsive rhetoric?
This is not about TBN or Benny Hinn, no one is defending them. The question is why do you attack others in your "quest" for whatever it is your questing for. You act like your words are harmeless. I would think after all those years as a pastor you would have learned something about attacking defensless people like those who attend Kihei Baptist Chapel.
You talked once about not being able live a duel life in the ministry. I wonder, did you quit just so you could be mean to people and not feel bad about it?
Feel free to not respond if you are to busy and do not have the time to properly "break me down".
Whatever happened to Josh anyway? I thought me and him were going to that back problem of his worked out. Unless he was just having fun, ya know like the whole call center thing. I hear that was just for fun he did not really mean for them to f*** themseves at all.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Marc.... so tell me what were his questions again? I have re-read Nugget's comments and truly cannot find one question he asks of me. He makes plenty of assertions... but no questions. Maybe I missed them.... which is possibly an error on my part.
I didn't deflect his questions (since there were none) but I did answer that I have stated many times who I am and what SCP is about for me.
Anyway... I have said many times I too am a stupid church person. I have contributed often to the stupid church phenomenon... and of course I have no problem admitting my part in it.... and I repeat... I have done so many, many, many times on this site and in the podcasts. So that's the summary... if you want the details... read the blog.
As to your questions Marc... I don't want to ignore them. But we aren't going to go anywhere by me trying to answer them... we are going to argue and disagree. But I will say I don't think I attack people. I think I share my opinions on subjects (actually I have written about very few individuals) or things that frustrate me in my own life and some people read into it and take it personally.
I said it to you before... challenging someone is not attacking them. Questioning them is not attacking them. Doubting them and calling them on the carpet is not attacking them.
Do you think you have attacked me here? I don't. I used to feel that way but not anymore. I have had people write full out blogs or posts about me or something I have written. I have had someone start a website against me. I used to take that personally and feel attacked. But not anymore... it's part of the landscape of this subculture.
And about the sign.... I don't think the pastor is an evil guy (I have done the same type of things, been a part of so many building campaigns that begged for money it's sickening)... I just think his approach and the sign are misguided... in a word stupid (lacking intelligence or common sense)! But again that's my opinion... and it might even be considered by some a stupid opinion. And that's just fine by me.
Somebody started a website against you? How did I miss out on that fun. Nobody ever started a website against me.
The nature of devil's advocate is to question a subject or subjects. The questions implied can be summed up with,
"I'm calling them stupid because it seems like the cyclical thing to do....it's tubular and everyone else is doing it, why are they immune to said stupidity?"
I don't see how reasserting your position on your own stupidity is a qualifier for anything, but whatever man. If it makes sense to you, I ain't gonna change your mind.
Josh, do you want a miracle or do want to prove me wrong? I don't understand. I am not above helping anyone, but I could care less whether or not you get your angry little way. I am in no way put in the position to prove anything. If you want a miracle come here and get one. That is up to you.
It is real easy to call me out to come there when you don't expect much to come of it. Don't forget I have seen miracles greater than that of the bible, I've got a pretty busy schedule.
p.s. I do love attention......let me know when you release the amazing, truth wrought meanderings known as "Detox: Step 10".
comment: It is so bla bla amazing bla bla truth bla bla I love you bla bla your so brave.........You have got to be kidding me.
elephant
here's an interesting word i just looked up . . .maybe will help clarify some things
blog
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: an online diary; a personal chronological log of thoughts published on a Web page; also called Weblog, Web log
Example: Typically updated daily, blogs often reflect the personality of the author.
i saw a church sign today that i thought was fitting (until i looked it up) . .. .
"Lynnwood Evangelical Free Church"
the first thought through my mind was something like : it's like Church, but without all the calories.
a miracle greater than that of the bible . . . hmmmm
are you ever going to say what that is? what are we calling miracles? which of these qualify:
a. angel of death
b. parting of the red sea
c. the plagues of egypt
d. the extra day for david's army
e. moses holding up his hands so that the israelites would win the battle
f. water to wine
g. raising the dead
h. the altar and the prophets of baal
i. virgin birth
k. healing the lepper
l. healing the blind
according to the following definition, i guess all of them would apply
mir·a·cle P Pronunciation Key (mr-kl)
n.
An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: “Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves” (Katherine Anne Porter).
oh, and one last one
rutabaga
and for such a busy schedule with seeing all of said ubermiracles how do you have time to comment on blogs?
I like to come here just to hear what offends mostly ex-churched Christians. When things get a little too wild for me, I just excuse myself from the conversation. Kind of like I would do at a party. No big deal.
Some of you act as if Steve or Josh are posting on YOUR blog.
OK, different subject entirely. I've waited a long time to ask this question because I didn't want to be rude or stupid (which is kind of funny), but does everyone here cuss in real life like they do on the blogs?
I've never heard Christians do that so freely in reality. Actually, I don't hear much of anyone talking that way in reality. It would be rare to hear someone drop an "f" bomb in public or any cuss word for that matter.
It's just a weird phenomenon, I guess. The teens in my youth group do it frequently on MySpace, but they rarely talk that way in real life. I guess adults are the same way (well, atleast ex-churched ones).
I'm only asking, so don't get upset with me - please. It's just something I'm wondering, casually.
Shieldsy:
Doesn't the fact that there seems to be a (growing?) number of 'detractors' commentating on the blog make you realise that there are people who feel just as adamantly about Steve & Josh's views/conduct as you so plainly do about other ministries?
A growing number, eh? I count the same three or four people. Over and over and over.....
The difference is Steve and Josh aren't going into these churches and telling the people in them how to run their ministries or calling individuals stupid to their face. Whereas that is exactly what you, nugget, davidsoftulsa, and shefrog are doing to Steve and Josh. As Steve already pointed out, he has not actually singled out very many individuals and called them stupid. And he has not questioned their salvation, or threatened to shut down their ministries simply because he disagrees with them. He doesn't go to your blog and start a pissing match. He just calls something stupid when he sees it on his own little patch of internet turf.
You know, if you had a blog, I wouldn't bother to harass you on it, or about it. For one thing, I don't know you that well, and I don't think it's my place to go around correcting perfect strangers on how they should conduct themselves. If I saw that many people had blogs of a nature and manner that I personally disagreed with, I might blog about it on my blog, but I would try not to point to particular individuals, just point out what I saw as a more universal problem. That's what Steve is doing when he exposes stupid church behavior on this blog.
Aren't we able to call "bullshit" on the stuff Steve & Josh spout?
Sure, but can you try not to piss on the carpet while you're at it? A blog is someone's home on the internet; their living room so to speak. And there are certain codes of conduct that you should follow in someone else's home. When you disagree, try not to make ad hominem attacks to the host or fellow guests. Feel free to rant and rave all you want on your own blog, in any manner you see fit....oh wait....you don't have your own blog.
By the way, all you detractors would do well to read the "Blog Etiquette" link. It's not the fact that you disagree so much as it's the sucky manner in which you choose to do so.
Hey Jimmybob, good thoughts!
To answer your question, yes, I use the occassional bit of "salty" language in real life, too. I try not to use it to personally attack someone (for instance, saying "fuck you" is just plain rude) but calling something "bullshit" or saying "hey, that's fuckin' awesome!" is commonly heard from me in the proper setting (ie., among friends). And yes, I've even let one fly in front of my parents, who didn't seem to mind (although from their own example, they've never been legalistic about that stuff). There's an interesting exchange over on Steve's personal blog about the use and nature of "adult language." I'm too tired at the moment to look it up, but maybe Steve can provide you with the post(s).
On topic? I agree with Jimmybob's assessment: this sign wouldn't appeal to seekers, or those looking for a new church. I'm still kinda scratching my head over who, exactly, this sign is trying to reach. Maybe it's meant to reassure current members that the church is growing and therefore it's worth investing in a new building?
I have more thoughts on this topic, such as the idea behind church buildings in general (If this church building costs 1 million to build? Honestly, that's pretty modest for a building these days) but I'm too tired to hash them out in a way that I feel would make a meaningful contribution to the (original) discussion.
Marc... to your summary "devil's advocate question": why are they immune to said stupidity?"
Answer: Who said we were immune? Certainly not us or anyone else I know.
Asked and answered... again and again and again.
Looks like your up to 52 - almost catching up to Joshes numbers. Wonder who will get the biggest numbers this month??? Hummm
On topic? I agree with Jimmybob's assessment: this sign wouldn't appeal to seekers, or those looking for a new church. I'm still kinda scratching my head over who, exactly, this sign is trying to reach. Maybe it's meant to reassure current members that the church is growing and therefore it's worth investing in a new building?
I agree with both of you.
At the same time, though, if this sign is supposed to reassure this church's current membership, why are the sign and thermometer gauging the amount of money raised for this project out for all the public to see in the first place? I remember when my own church was expanding about twelve years ago, there were no signs out on its front lawn asking people to "grow with us", or a thermometer showing everyone how much $$ had been raised for the expansion to that point. It was just the church's own project, y'know?
As for swearing? Most of the time I just do it in other blogs, some boards, and in private (I have a private, written journal in which I've let some "bombs" drop), usually because those are the only words that I think suit the occasion. There's at least one I won't use, though: the c-word. (There's also a post or two about this on badchristian.com).
I cuss a fair bit, and sometimes I try to rein it in. I just don't think it's that big of a deal in the scheme of things.
oh I"m nothing more than a troll?
haha.
Yea, Steve has posted alot. So has josh. Now you guys have this hip circle jerk going on that you deem to be iconoclastic. I'm just telling you bitches that it's not as revolutionary and kitsch as you think.
I don't care if you call yourself stupid. I already know that you guys are really stupid.
Stupid things Josh and Steve have done:
1. Created a website called "Stupidchurchpeople."
2. Posted pictures of pastors and worshippers insinuating their stupidness.
3. Try to pass off as being "ok" because they write an occassional "i suck and i'm stupid" post to warm our hearts.
4. Pretend like going to bars etc. is better than going to church! haha. WTF?
I got news for you halfwits. If you want a REAL revolution, it can only happen in the CHURCH. The church that you idiots abandoned to create a blog with a title dedicated to the sub-par intelligence of current members.
Good going geniuses.
Another thing:
How can you possibly say something as smug as "oh I say I'm stupid...that's the point we're all stupid." Stupid is as stupid does. That's your opinion not mine. I tend to believe that people AREN"T stupid. I tend to stay away from calling mass groups of people STUPID, even if I include myself.
This faux self-reproach is certainly not a way to get off the hook. You can't say something like "church people are stupid" and think it's ok because you parenthetically say, "oh yea me too me too we all are"
I, for one, don't want to be called stupid. And, if I am, I"m going to defend myself.
It would be one thing if you named your website "www.Allpeoplearestupidandchurchpeoplearenotexcluded.com"
But of course, you want alot of traffic. You know, so people can see the light.
How about we do this:
www.Allpeoplearestupidandchurchpeoplearenotexcluded
andtheonlyexclusionisnuggetwhoeverthehellthatis.com
haha. Steve the dictator is labeling my presence as negligible by making a funny. A decent funny for a square guy like you, even if you borrowed my original parody template.
Keep preaching to us Steve. Maybe you'll get laid.
how about:
"www.nuggetisnotstupidbutsteveis.com/findoutwhosteveishere/&//99876"
Keep preaching to us Steve. Maybe you'll get laid.
I doubt that nugget... I really do.
ok I give up I like this site now.
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