Theology on Tap
Found this on another site and thought I would share it. This is from the Mongtomery Advertiser .
The Rev. Rick Mason has a mission to reach those who have given up on church to show them what they're missing. But he knows that those are the hardest people to lure.
That's why Mason, pastor of Christ Lutheran Church in Prattville, has decided not to try to bring the unchurched to church -- he's bringing the church to them.
Or at least, he's bringing it to where they hang out.
On Tuesday, Mason is starting a new program called Theology on Tap, scheduled for the first, third, fourth and fifth Tuesdays of each month, where people can gather to talk about scripture and faith issues.
And this new program will be -- where else? -- in a bar.
"I wanted a way to reach out to the unchurched, or as I like to call them, dechurched," Mason said. "It's for those with questions who don't feel comfortable enough asking in a church atmosphere."
Mason said he got the idea from something he learned while teaching evangel classes in South Carolina.
"Someone once told me that there's nothing in the Bible that says build a building, put my name on it and wait for the people to come," he said. "We need to be going out and meeting people in a place that they'd feel comfortable."
On Tuesday, that place will be the Pratt Pub in Prattville next to Bama Lanes. Mason said the Pratt Pub is the kind of place "Jesus would have hung out in to find people."
Mason knows a lot about those people -- he was one of them.
Mason spent 20 years out of the church -- a time that he says was God's way of preparing him for this mission.
"I still have some issues with organized religion and I know how hard it is to go back," he said. "I think this is easier -- neutral ground."
Some of Mason's issues will be discussed in the first Theology on Tap on Tuesday, when the subject will be "The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion." Mason says the discussion will deal with some of the things the church says and does that puts people off.
Mason said this week would mainly to see who comes and what they want to talk about.
"I don't want to hit anyone over the head with a Bible. I want it to be comfortable," he said. "I'm not going in with any preconceived notions of who is going to be there or what questions they're going to ask."
I thought this was interesting...what do you think?
The Rev. Rick Mason has a mission to reach those who have given up on church to show them what they're missing. But he knows that those are the hardest people to lure.
That's why Mason, pastor of Christ Lutheran Church in Prattville, has decided not to try to bring the unchurched to church -- he's bringing the church to them.
Or at least, he's bringing it to where they hang out.
On Tuesday, Mason is starting a new program called Theology on Tap, scheduled for the first, third, fourth and fifth Tuesdays of each month, where people can gather to talk about scripture and faith issues.
And this new program will be -- where else? -- in a bar.
"I wanted a way to reach out to the unchurched, or as I like to call them, dechurched," Mason said. "It's for those with questions who don't feel comfortable enough asking in a church atmosphere."
Mason said he got the idea from something he learned while teaching evangel classes in South Carolina.
"Someone once told me that there's nothing in the Bible that says build a building, put my name on it and wait for the people to come," he said. "We need to be going out and meeting people in a place that they'd feel comfortable."
On Tuesday, that place will be the Pratt Pub in Prattville next to Bama Lanes. Mason said the Pratt Pub is the kind of place "Jesus would have hung out in to find people."
Mason knows a lot about those people -- he was one of them.
Mason spent 20 years out of the church -- a time that he says was God's way of preparing him for this mission.
"I still have some issues with organized religion and I know how hard it is to go back," he said. "I think this is easier -- neutral ground."
Some of Mason's issues will be discussed in the first Theology on Tap on Tuesday, when the subject will be "The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion." Mason says the discussion will deal with some of the things the church says and does that puts people off.
Mason said this week would mainly to see who comes and what they want to talk about.
"I don't want to hit anyone over the head with a Bible. I want it to be comfortable," he said. "I'm not going in with any preconceived notions of who is going to be there or what questions they're going to ask."
I thought this was interesting...what do you think?
posted by Steve at
8/06/2005
17 Comments:
On the occasional Sunday night, Pastor throws open the song service and asks the congregation to suggest favorite hymns or choruses. Sunday evening being a generally older crowd, someone invariably selects "I'll Say 'Yes, Lord, Yes," or the hymn that goes ""I'll go where You want me to go, dear Lord..."
While I'm certain this isn't what they had in mind, I think it's awesome. I often assert that, if Jesus were to come to my town, area churches would likely be the last place He would come (except with a whip). He would go to the corner bar. He would go to the projects. He would go stand on the drug corners that church people won't even drive past. He would hang out downtown with the hookers and the junkies (Now let's hear from some SmartChurchPeople about how a stoned person cannot understand the four spiritual laws until he's of sound mind).
I recently read a story about two surfer dudes in Pacific Beach who started a congregation in a bar. Hey, I'd go there in a heartbeat.
hey steve, i heard about this guy on NPR sometime ago. typically, i would still be leary about any kind of "outreach" to the "unchurched" even if it is in a bar, but i think the path that brought rick mason to this place gives him some credibility. i truly believe that you can't lead someone to a place that you yourself have not been to and it sounds like he's been there.
i'm glad you were able to find this guys story in print/online and share it with others.
eddie
Eddie,
When you said, "typically,i would still be leary about any kind of "outreach" to the "unchurched" even if it is in a bar..." could you elaborate on that? Are you leary of the bar part or the reaching the unchurched part? I don't want to misunderstand you, and I hope you didn't mean it the way I read it. Thanks.
Peace.
Eddie... we can go where this takes us for a moment. Please expound on your comment...
i would still be leary about any kind of "outreach" to the "unchurched" even if it is in a bar
Most Christians (Evangelical ones to be exact) assume that this is what the church is to be about.... "seeking and saving" the lost.
Well, I'm not Eddie, but I can tell you why I have the same leariness that he does. "outreach" to the "unchurched" frequently means (by those who use the phrase) "I know the answers and I have decided to condenscend to share them with you." Well, that's maybe too harsh. How about "I know the answers and through the power of the Holy Spirit I feel moved to share them with you." It's not the motivation for "saving" that is the problem, it's the "I know the answers" part.
The alternative to this appoach is one that (thankfully) is very common in the blogsphere. It is "I don't know the answers. I will never know the answers, but I seek them nonetheless, and I have faith that that is a reasonable thing to do. I have found the search for answers to be central to my life, and if you are interested, you and I could have a conversation about how that works."
That sounds pretty UU. I am personally more dogmatic than that, but I do not believe that just because my dogma is useful in orienting my life that it will be useful to everyone. I believe that there are as many paths to God as there are people. I find the reports of Jesus teaching contained in the New Testament the absolutely best single resource for me on my faith journey, but it is sure not the only resource, and is does not follow that there aren't better resources for other people. Does this mean that I think that truth is relative? No. It just means that I think that one should not confuse the finger pointing toward the moon with the moon itself. The fact that there are many ways in which to direct attention to the moon in no way affects what the moon really is, and it is the same with God (only about a zillion times more so).
So it all depends on what Mason thinks he is doing. If he thinks that he is sharing answers with those unfortunates who don't already have them themselves, I don't think that he'll have much luck. If he thinks that he may move closer to God by going into a bar and in the spirit of love earnestly seeking God in the people he finds there, I imagine that he will succeed beyond his wildest dreams.
sorry, allow me to clarify myself here, i love bars, i love beer and i certianly love wine but i am very leary of christians especially ones who say they want to "reach" the unchurched.
steve, you are right, most christians do assume that "seeking and saving" the lost is what church is all about... and maybe it is for them. but, when you're an unbeliever like i had been for the better part of my life and someone who continues to struggle with his faith today, ALL we see are people with an AGENDA to "seek and save" our souls. and, let's be honest here for a moment, that IS their sincere agenda. it's not to get to know you for who you are or to be a sincere and genuine friend, the only reason they get to know you and/or spend any time with you is so that they can sell you on what they believe. hell, even greasy used car salesmen will take the time to get to know you and become your friend if they thinks they can sell you a car.
in my humble opinion, God saves souls and not people who call themselves christians. the way i see it, if christians would just have a little faith, trust in God, be who they pretend to be, wash peoples feet and humbly serve their community as Jesus did and taught while he was alive.... people outside the walls of the church just might stop, take notice, stare and wonder why these people are the way they are just as they did with Jesus. when asked, and only when asked, you as a christian should be prepared to share YOUR story.
but hey, what do i know...
eddie
"I hear a lot of Christians saying that they want to be real... with out hidden agendas... and this is their excuse to do nothing. This is the danger in your argument."
serving your community out of humility and love and with no other agenda than the fact they are God's children too is doing nothing?
"I read lots of blogs where people are so afraid that the "world" might feel as if we're selling them something. And they use that same "greasy car salesman" argument. But a good salesman will first find out what the need of his prospect is, and attempt to lead that prospect to an effective conclusion... LEAD, not sell."
i know you may find this hard to believe, but not everyone is looking to buy a car and likewise, not everyone wants what you think they need.
"Unfortunately for many of us, we've been sold the bill of goods that boldness is being an idiot for Christ, and that is simply not so."
last i checked, PEOPLE came looking for Jesus and not the other way around. He could have been bold about who he was but He chose not to.
"This is right on! But if we're going to truly have faith in this gospel, we must also have enough faith to be willing to leverage our own lives and reputations for Hid glory, as we take a "step of faith", boldly proclaiming the Word of God to those to whom we are led, those who probably won't inquire."
what makes you so sure they won't inquire? did God Himself tell you this? it's obvious to me that you most likely have never fallen out of faith before or completely reject God as an adult? do you really think i'm just talking out of my ass here? forgive me, but i've been sharing a personal experience. all my life i've had christians like you blah, blah, blah their faith on me especially when i didn't ask or want to hear it and all it made me want to do is say fuck you and fuck your god. you can believe whatever you want but there was a day that i did eventually do what you would cosider improbable.... i inquired. imagine that?
most christians i know do a whole lot of "bold proclaiming" but i rarely see any of them do anything else.
but hey, what do i know....
eddie
See I knew this would be fun....
I think the difference is "planning" the opportunity to share my faith or just being "available" to the relationships we formulate throughout our lives.
Let me explain a bit... in the old days in Texas we used to have "visitation night" at my church. We would actually go and talk with people that had visited our church or "cold call" on houses in the neighborhood to "share the gospel". Man was that always weird. I hated it. As a teenager, I went to "discipleship" events where one of the excercises was going "door to door witnessing" and three or four of us would descend on a house to enlighten the inhabitants. It usually met with resistance and lots of "no thank you's" and the occasional slammed door preceeded by plenty of expletives.
Now, part of the training was in knowing that we were doing "what God called us to do", going out into the highways and hedges sharing our faith with the poor lost world. The whole experience was to make us feel good about our faith and to strengthen us, and to feel sorry for the poor soul going to hell that rejected us.
If you have ever had a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon come to your door, you know the feeling. They think we need "saving" so they "visit" and we think, "Man are they wasting their time!"
Why don't we see our efforts today, however relevant or "cutting edge" they may be in the same light?
I think this pastor has part of the equation correct. I believe it is "wrong" at some level for us to believe that the way to get our friends to consider a life in Christ is to get their butts to come and sit in the church service. His attitude is, "I will go where they are." And that is a good step in the right direction.
However, I think it is important to not see these people he encounters at the pub as a "means to an end."
I have a friend that I have had an ongoing relationship with for over 5 years now. He doesn't belong to any church, hasn't attended in years, would describe himself as a believer in God but nothing else of "religion" interests him. He knows my life, my background, he knows about this website and yet even knowing all that he is still my friend. He's asked me about God, and we talk about all of it from time to time. But most of the time we are just two guys, hanging out, having margaritas or sodas and sharing our lives. I learn much from him about this life of ours. The "means" is genuine friendship and the "end" for me is being there for each other in all of life's situations.
I just don't think you can "program" evangelism.... whether it is door-to-door witnessing or open question night at the local bar.
Somebody mentioned something about Peter preaching, and I chuckled. The first thing that came to mind is, how was it that Peter was allowed to preach? He had no degree, no seminary diploma, and no ordination (by an officially certified religious body). He wouldn't be given a second glance in today's institutions. He is clearly not qualified.
Oops... got so wrapped up in the Peter preaching thing, I forgot to leave my real comment.
I think the body of Christ is a good thing no matter where it gathers. I do agree with those who implied that the "agendas" need to be left at the building with a steeple on top... except for the agenda that Christ had... to share the love of the Father, and introduce people to the Kingdom of God.
hi jeff,
"I've never rejected God as an adult. I don't feel that is a prerequisite to be an effective Christ-follower."
who said anything about rejecting God was a prerequisite to being an effective follower of Christ?
My whole point, which I think you missed, is that I don't have to sit around waiting for someone to inquire, before I bring up Jesus. For me, that would be inauthentic. I am a Christian. Jesus is a part of my life, and I'm not ashamed of Him. Do I need to use discernment and wisdom? Absolutely! But I'm not going to fear mentioning God because someone might not like it. I cannot truly and authentically create relationships with those who are far from God if I cannot be myself. That would be a reverse form of hypocrisy.
no, i'm quite sure i got your point just fine but i'm afraid you seemed to have missed my point entirely. no matter, you're absolutely right. you should continue to be the proud christian that you are and tell everyone about your religion every opportunity you get. it is after all, who you are.
So what if I share Christ's love and you tell me to fuck off? Christ's love is more powerful than your anger or resentment toward me. And the seed is still planted. It's in there.
if your religion is what motivates you to tell people like me about what you believe even if i don't want to hear it, what makes you think any resentment a guy like me might have would be limited to you? believe me, you really aren't that special. whether you want to believe it or not, it's the kind of seeds that christian like you plant that keep so many people like me away from the church. but, you don't have to take my word for it.
I don't have any answers here. And I apologize if my questioning you pissed you off, (which apparently it did). I'm trying to figure this out too. But don't crucify me because I'm optimistic or whatever I'm being accused of here.
really? kind of sounds to me like you've got all the answers.
Sorry if I'm not scarred or jaded enough to share your angst. I guess I'm just naive like that.
yes, i may be scarred and jaded but i would never want anyone to share my angst and that's the truth.
have a good evening,
eddie
one last thought,
i just wanted to make sure it was clear that my original comment(s) were made based on the article steve had originally posted... the one in regards to "reaching" the "unchurched".
for the record, i think there is a distinct difference between sharing your faith with a friend and making friends in order to share your faith.
eddie
"Did I say "religion"??"
sorry, i was intentionally trying to take a stab at you to see if you would flinch.
"Believe it or not, eddie, not every person is like you..."
i never said they were... but, i'm always surprised to see how many are.
just out of curiosity, and i'm not trying to be facetious here, how many of your CLOSE friends would you say are NOT christians?
"If my actions can survive your questions, then they're worthy of pursuing. So dish it out, because I can take it."
the way i see it, there are no answers, only choices.
"I've been in church my whole life, and I'm now wondering if it was all a waste.
"
if you take away the church, your praise songs, your programs, your sunday school, your small groups, your bible studies, hell if you even take away the bible.... what do you have left?
"I love God. I love my friends. And I want to spend eternity with them all in heaven (whatever that may be). Beyond that, I really don't know."
Jesus may have died to give us eternal life, but He also lived to teach us how to live our life today. spreading the "good news" WASN'T the only thing that Jesus called those who would follow him to do.
in all honesty jeff, i really am sorry to hear that you are struggling in your faith. it's a place i wouldn't wish anyone to be and that's the truth. if i've caused you to have a lot to think about, it's only because i am there myself.
sincerely,
eddie
did i really ever accuse you of anything?
"accusatorily" would have been better translated, "with an accusing tone".
maybe i missed something, but "accusing tone" as in my tone suggested i was accusing you of something? if so, what exactly would you say i was accusing you of?
rover can't have the last word
Removing the legalism from church, church meetings, and church people is what Jesus was all about. Rover, beer is not bad in itself. It is the excessive use of it that causes problems. The same could be said of food (ever eat to excess at a "fellowship?"), work, playing golf, you name it...
My home church has been meeting since 1991. 14 years. I drink beer, and so do some of the guys I meet with. But beer is not the focus, Jesus is. And no, we don't drink beer during service, although, I wouldn't get all anal if someone did....we have our service at 10:00 am Sunday, and for most people we meet with, that's not the time to start drinking. Here's the thing, though: I meet with 2 other men three or four days a week. We all drink beer, (not when we meet) and we all have close walks with God. So far beer has not been the loaded gun that turned us into prodigal sons. I doubt that it will, because neither of us uses it to excess, and if one of us started to, the others would be there to help restore him.
I hope your comments were facetious. Looking at your blog, I can't tell if you were or not. But please don't get legalistic with my choice to have a beer now and then. I don't think Jesus would have an objection....but the Pharisees did.
I've got some posts on my blog regarding home church.
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