The Lies of Religion Game
In my previous post, Theology on Tap, a pastor will be holding a discussion in a local bar regarding "The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion". So I was thinking I would ask and see what you people would put on your list of lies you feel organized religion portrays or communicates.
I would suggest that you make your list of seven prior to reading anyone else's list on the comments. So make your list, submit it here and let's see what we come up with together...and I am certain it will be more than all agreeing on the same seven lies.
But I have only one rule on this post, stick to your list of seven (please do not comment on anyone's else's list for now) and then after about a week we will have a thread to discuss all the submissions.
So let's start LYING to each other!
I would suggest that you make your list of seven prior to reading anyone else's list on the comments. So make your list, submit it here and let's see what we come up with together...and I am certain it will be more than all agreeing on the same seven lies.
But I have only one rule on this post, stick to your list of seven (please do not comment on anyone's else's list for now) and then after about a week we will have a thread to discuss all the submissions.
So let's start LYING to each other!
posted by Steve at
8/08/2005
23 Comments:
I'm getting a little self-conscious about the fact that this is the 3rd post in a row where I comment first. Doesn't anyone else check SCP every ten minutes for a new post?
Anyway here's my cuss-free seven (some with the typical supporting argument):
1. If you work harder for the church, God will be more pleased with you.
(Without faith, it's impossible to please God, and faith without works is dead, so logically...)
2. You must pay your tithes to the church you attend. You may support other ministries, but it must be with "offerings" given above and beyond your tithe.
("Bring your tithe into the storehouse," says the Lord, "that there may be food in my house." And what house is God's house? The church building, of course!--d'ooh, that's #3!)
4. Things related to the church are "sacred" and things outside the church are "secular."
5. The best definition of "evangelism" is to bring someone to a church service.
6. The best way to keep your teen "in the fold" is to sequester him/her from "the world."
(what hath light to do with darkness? + frienship with the world is emnity with God)
7. The most accurate guage of your spirituality is your wallet.
(Jesus talked about money more than anythng else. [!?!?!?!?])
Here are my seven lies:
1. The pastor is the foundation of the church.
2. The people go to church.
3. It is the pastor's job to minister.
4. It is the pastor's job to visit the sick.
5. Large congregations are doing something right.
6. You should dress appropriately when going to church.
7. You need to go to church to get re-energized.
Dorsey,
I am proud of your "cuss-free" version!
7 lies...
1. You will become either healthy, wealthy, or wise (or some combination of the three) when you start to develop a relationship with Christ. (e.g. see Joel Osteen).
2. Good Church people vote Republican.
3. Good Church people love homosexuals. (The truth is, they're too busy keeping a ten foot pole between them and the homosexual in question that they can't even begin to figure out how to love them.)
4. Doing evangelism should be the number one goal of everyone in the church.
5. The Church embraces diversity.
6. Being the first person to close you eyes and raise your hands during a praise chorus makes you the holiest person in the service...and therefore worthy of praise.
7. People that are 'saved' somehow sin less than people who aren't.
Here's mine:
1) You cannot submit to God whom you cannot see, if you cannot submit to a man/men whom you can.
2) God will not give you your ministry until you submit to another man's ministry.
3) The "five-fold" ministry is for a select few within the Body of Christ.
4) The level of commitment to tithing equals the level of your commitment to Christ and His church.
5) The "Divine Order" of God is God, Christ, Man, Woman, Child.
6) You must be submitted to a group of men or organization in order to be "legitimate."
7) Only the clergy are considered "God's anointed" and to challenge them is rebellion to God.
1) We're all equal
2) Life is better on our side
3) We have all the answers
4) Therefore you have none of the
answers
5) We love everyone
6) We love the sinner but hate the sin
7) We're happier, have more joy because we go to church
I need to correct number 5 on my list.
It should state:
5) The "Divine Order of God" is: God, Christ, Pastor, Husband, Wife, Child.
Sorry.
Ok, I haven't read anyone else's comments yet, so I'll be especially interested to see how many overlap.
1) Worship is music, or mainly music: usually, a nod is given to the general sense that technically everything we do is worship, but really, religion says music is worship. Although music (like everything) can certainly be worship, there is a false focus on it that draws us away from really worshipping in 'spirit and truth.'
2) You need a pastor's/church's prayer "covering," or you will be hijacked by the hordes of hell, and taken for a joyride through spiritual backsliding: This is so bogus, it's not even funny - and so aimed at keeping people dependent and in a religious system.
3) The definition of church is usually a lie: the obvious one. You are the church. I am the church. We are the church. Where I go, the church is. Period. Duh.
4) The "Sunday format" is somehow scriptural: And no, by the way, it isn't really. Doesn't mean it's inherently wrong, but I love it when people get upset that there wasn't "worship" after the announcements, as well as before.
5) People who don't participate in a "traditional church setting" are backslidden: Baby, then I'm on the slip n' slide of sin, and loving it (as is Jesus).
6) The model of the pastor/ teacher/ administrator/ CEO is biblical: Hmm... nope. Pastoral gifting is very different than say, the gift of teaching. And both are different from being a gifted adminstrator or CEO.
7) Conformity of belief amongst all believers is biblically required: Read acts. They disagreed on stuff. We are part of the body because of Christ crucified and risen as the Son of God. Focus on the basics, sure - but frankly, there's room and grace for difference of belief and opinion. We don't need to sequester off into separate "groups" that can all see everything identically, and it doesn't weaken the reality or testimony of Christ to have disagreement. I'm sure we'll all have some surprises when we get there - at least, all of you will.
And that's my take. Good post topic.
:Chris
:www.ruinedforlife.net
I could only come up with five (but the philosophy I've decided to use is that five really good lies are better than ten or 20 mediocore lies!!)
1. I am a worthless nothing that does not deserve to be loved or accepted for who I am.
2. You are a worthless nothing that does not deserve to be loved or accepted just for being you.
3. People that don't have god are unhappy and empty, living a life of immorality. (And by extension, if I dump god I'll end up as a homeless suicidal addict - just like all those people who shared their testimonies).
4. god agrees with everything *my* demoniation teaches regarding doctrine and theology.
5. I am not capable of doing good things or quality work --- anything nice, good or happy that happens is because of god's amazing grace and ability to work through me.
1) the church is the ultimate authority.
2) you must belong to a local christian body of believers. there are no lone ranger christians.
3) you must be "plugged in" and help others to do so. (work work and more work)
4) we must have bigger and better programs to attract people to our church. numbers are everything. if you don't grow, you are dying.
5) you must give a minimum of 10%.
6) go evangelize your neighbors, co-workers and strangers to get them to come to our church, even if you have no clue on earth what you are doing. make people feel guilty for being such sinners and then point them to our church so we can help them.
7) You must go to church on Sunday, all dressed up, looking great and smiling. You must sit in an uncomfortable pew so you don't fall asleep. You must all face forward and never interact with each other because you dont want to disrupt the ultimate part of the service which is a serman by the same preacher every week..This is your duty. This pleases God. And, don't forget to never tell people if you are dying inside because you may look like you don't have the Holy Spirit. Go out of the church and grit your teeth all week until you come back next week and try really hard to be good so you will get favor in God's eyes and not go to Hell.
There are 7 of the hundreds that I see...
1. God speaks through the same person every week.
2. You must have a building to be a church.
3. Not tithing brings a curse.
4. Consumer Christianity is Christian.
5. Being busy is better than being spiritual.
6. Church staff must do ministry for us, because the "common man" is uneducated.
7. I lost my post and forgot the 7th. But this is enough to make me sick...
1) Jesus is the head of our church.
2) The elders are the Spiritual leaders of our church.
3) Making disciples means going to a small group (even if you don't talk, pray, or only show up if you haven't had a "crazy day").
4) Doing a Bible study is the same as building relationships.
5) A church that honors excellence honors God (like flashy publications, good coffee, great sound system).
6) If you feel led, you can start a ministry at our church. (You don't have to wait for a staff member to set it up for you.)
7) Worship.
1. The pastor should be a paid professional.
2. The five-fold ministry (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers - Eph 4:11) is for the Pastor only. (No wonder we wear them out so quickly)
3. We don't put our pastor on a pedestal. (That's why so many of them fall.)
4. This is a non-traditional church. (That's why we have a flow-chart, meet in a building, pay a pastor, and do all of the other traditional things other churches do.)
5. For worship, you need 3 or 4 fast songs, followed by 3 or 4 slow songs that end with the last line of the chorus going slower and s l o w e r and s l o w e r.......
6. We need a building in which to meet.
7. If you get saved you have to lose the earing, piercings, and hide your tats. Oh, yeah, and stop talking like that! (Better learn Christianese)
Oh yeah, my favorite one...I had a pastor who used to say, "If you skip church to go to the lake, you might wind up spending eternity there..."
Piggybacking on Paul's lake threat...one sermon i heard, while visiting a new church, was about "them Presbyterians" with their boats in the church parking lots...shameful!! Just Shameful!!
runnin around half naked all afternoon on God's Day!!
I looked around at the people....apparently the right thing to do was to belly up to the buffet line all afternoon.
and to speak bad about another part of Christ's body like that made me mad.
WHAT was right about ANY of what he had to say.
I never went back.
i have my list of things too...but i am way to tired to post them.
i must admit, this has been the absolute most fun I have had being one of God's kids. I have been out of the machine for about 9 months now. I have NEVER felt more alive and challenged to walk closer with my Jesus!
spent the weekend ministering God's Love at a conference in a neighboring town...demonstrating the power of God and telling them that He is a very personal Creator...
and....i wanted to shout at that previous pastor:"what day is NOT God's Day?"
dont they ALL belong to Him?
Well, I really don't have seven, but here's a real tough one....
"We are in a HOLY WAR ! "
Oh yeah ? Our government, run by homosexuals, and hell-bent on killing as many innocent unborn children as it can, is justified by GOD ?!?@#$!
I DON'T THINK SO.......
Oh, and how about the all-important "LOVE OFFERING" ?!?
I guess I'm odd man out here. I've been going to a non-denominational bible church for years now, and an Evangelical Free church years before I came to the church I'm in now, and I've never heard any of these statements in either chuch.
Where I have heard them is on message boards like this one, and on such networks as TBN and any other network that gets a Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Dr. Gene (some whack job out in CA I saw on tv when I lived in CT in 1992), Pat Robertson, etc.
I can't find any of what I've read here in the Bible which is the word of God. God's words are the only ones you need to worry about. I hold all pastors accountable to what the bible says. If they're preaching something that goes against the bible, I leave that church, because they're adding to it or taking something away from it.
I will say this though, I have heard these kinds of statements in the church my grandpa used to lead in Iowa, when I was a kid. And oh man has my dad told me some stories of what he used to hear growing up LOL.
Lies of organized religion:
1. The "Sinner's Prayer" is a magic spell that, if said correctly with the proper amount of tears and guilt involved, will gain you admission to heaven.
2. Pastors, layleaders, church staff, etc., prayer more often and have a better handle on "God's will" than the average church-goer, and are therefore more holy, "committed," and generally morally superior.
3. The epitome of a "good Christian" is to pray, read your bible, give your tithe faithfully, attend church as often as possible, and "share the gospel" with your unsaved friends.
4. Singing with tears/eyes closed and a proper feeling of awe or joy=worshiping God.
5. The gospel is good news for everybody (um, I disagree with this. It wasn't good news for the religious leadership of Jesus' day, now was it?)
6. The "Gospel" is that Jesus died to save you from your individual sins. That's it.
7. The sign of a successful church is how many members attend.
And now, to read everyone else's comments and see all the things I should've thought of, but didn't....
JESUSFREAK
Our religion is different than all the other ones
Welcome to Gods House
Don't feel pressured to put anything in the offering plate
God has a wonderful plan for your life
The anti christ is starting to rise in the one world government
We must protect Israel or God will take his hand of protection off the US
We need christian leaders in government
Gods Peace Greet eachother by name...
I see God instructing us to love God, love our neighbor. To carry the message of the good news to all.
Can anyone explain why or how, loving God, loving our neighbor and carrying the message to all has anything to do with complaining about organized church?
The Bible tell us to deal with those in private that do wrong. If you have a problem with a person in the church… take the problem to them.. deal with them as instructed by the God you claim to love.
Yes, I realize the following the bible it hard…. And when you take the problem to the person that has ego.. you may not get satisfaction from that person… however, you will receive satisfaction thru the Lord….
Organized Church does have problems… and the problem is you and I… We are allowing those problems.
We are the body…
bibledude: to answer your question, or to ask another one:
What does complaining about people complaining about organized religion have to do with "God's instructions"...
eh?
Christ complained about the church CONSTANTLY. If you could say that the Anointed One loathed anything, it would be the leaders of the church!
In other words, there is good reason to debate or "complain". You're here after all, might as well ditch the "do no wrong" attitude you're upholding.
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